My personal opinion about cloth nappies

*** This post was moved from another thread as it was off topic*** Admin

I work in a toddler room, Im a very experinced Nursery Nurse and to be completely honest Cloth Nappies make toilet training alot harder. From a nursery point of view Cloth nappies can be a pain. Changing a child so very often can be quite difficult to achieve.
The urine is not taken away from the skin and in some cases the nappy actually smell of urine even after 30 minutes. Staff do not have the time to sit a child on the potty every 20 minutes when it takes just as long to put the the nappy back on. Your child is not the only child in the nursery please remeber this.

It is important to understand that a nursery is group care. imagine: Its afternoon

Staff are wanting to take children out for a walk, out of 20 children you can have probably up to 14 children in nappies. Im sure you understand that changing all these nappies can take a long while. (do the math). Most nurseries do work in ratio most of the time.
If you have got a child in cloth nappies the nappy change takes longer. It can easily take twice as long to change a cloth nappy. Imagine if you have lots of these children. We would never get out the door.

I have read plenty of studies on the impact of washing/drying cloth nappies on the environment compared to disposable biodegradable nappies. Not every disposable nappy stays on land fills for god knows how many years. Cloth nappies have just as much impact on the environment as disposables.

please read below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4559665.stm

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 62,00.html

Cloth nappies can also hinder walking. I have actually witnessed children struggling to walk because the cloth nappy is so large. Yes i understand that they are getting smaller but i firmly believe they are a hinderance. I once heard a parent comment how cute her son looked running in a cloth nappy. What she was actually watching was her sons legs compensating for the large nappy between his legs making him run strangley.

In the summer these nappies are far too warm. I have actually changed children out of cloth nappies as they have been too hot. Some cloth nappies consist of 3 layers of material.

Also if your child is sore. Do not send a barrier cream to sort it out. A barrier cream will just seal in the infection and make it worse. Medicated cream will sort out nappy rash quickly.

this will probably be my only post. Please keep in mind these points.

This post was moved from:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4123
as it was way off topic.

[MrC]

There has been significant discussion about the accuracy and credibility of the Environment Agency study referenced in the BBC link in your post. Even the Environment Agency have themselves admitted that the study contained a large amount of inaccuracy. Your BBC article dates back to 2005 so can't be considered to be referencing any newer more credible information. Your second link is unfortunately malformed.

My own personal opinion and that of many others (including that of the Environment Agency, who commissioned the report) is that this study was flawed and should never have been released in the first place. As a childcare worker the advice you give to others should be based on relevant, accurate and current information, not information that suits your particular agenda or personal beliefs.

As to your other comments, you of course have a right to your personal opinions. However I must say that your experiences are not the norm and your conclusions are not supported by the experiences of most cloth nappy users we have met (and that is quite a few).

We have used nurseries where cloth nappies are used in conjunction with disposables and have spoken to the staff at length about their experiences. None of them voiced any concern about the size of the nappies causing walking difficulties (I suggest you tell the relevant parties to source their nappies more appropriately) and the overriding opinion has always been that cloth nappies caused fewer dermatological problems than disposables.

The heat retention issue you raise has no specific basis in scientific fact. Evaporating liquid causes cooling. We live in Queensland Australia and believe me it can get a little hotter here than in the UK. Our children have never complained of it. Again, you may have a problem with a specific brand of nappy (with particular reference to your enormous nappies that take 20 minutes to change), it is up to you as a child care worker to source your product with more care.

Not every disposable nappy stays on land fills for god knows how many years

So where do they go then? La La Land?

If you have a problem with changing cloth nappies in your workplace I would suggest you look at improving the systems and staffing levels within your company in order to maintain the adequate levels of care your clients expect and pay for. It is not an adequate argument to say that you will not use cloth because there is not enough time to do so. You are effectively saying you will not do your bit to help the environment because you do not wish to spend the time or your company is not willing to invest in better methods. Pass the buck. This is not a problem with cloth nappies per se, it is a problem specific to the efficient running of your company, their environmental policy and your skill set as a child minder.

20 minutes for a nappy change! What are you doing? Mummifying the child? I can do it in less than 2 without trying particularly hard.

this will probably be my only post. Please keep in mind these points.

I find it a shame that this will be the only post you will ever make here, but that in itself perhaps says it all. Have you spent the time reading about real peoples' experiences with cloth on here? Or does that not fit with what is convenient for you to believe? How about some open discussion instead of just a closed statement? Or did you just want to start a flame war?

[clothmama]

This thread interests me alot.

I find this quite strange as you obviously have no interest in cloth nappies so I'm a bit perplexed as to why you are interested in our discussion. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'll attempt to discuss the other side of the points that you have raised.

I work in a toddler room, Im a very experinced Nursery Nurse and to be completely honest Cloth Nappies make toilet training alot harder. From a nursery point of view Cloth nappies can be a pain. Changing a child so very often can be quite difficult to achieve.

I find this statement fairly uninformed. Modern cloth nappies need changing no more often than disposables and take no more time to change than one. Most parents who send their infants to nursery in cloth supply ones that have aplix (like velcro) fastenings or poppers which are very quick to remove and replace.

The urine is not taken away from the skin and in some cases the nappy actually smell of urine even after 30 minutes.

Again your lack of knowledge about cloth nappies is quite astounding considering you have come on here to criticise them. Modern cloth nappies often have a build in fleece layer that wicks urine away from the babies bottom in a manner at least as effective as a disposable. Those nappies that don't have a liner placed in them for the same reason.

Staff do not have the time to sit a child on the potty every 20 minutes when it takes just as long to put the the nappy back on. Your child is not the only child in the nursery please remeber this.

20 minutes to put a cloth nappy on - that's amazing it truly takes me but a moment!

I have read plenty of studies on the impact of washing/drying cloth nappies on the environment compared to disposable biodegradable nappies. Not every disposable nappy stays on land fills for god knows how many years. Cloth nappies have just as much impact on the environment as disposables.

please read below:

Yes I did read the first link (the 2nd didn't work). It's a shame that you only managed to read very out of date information. The environmental agency realised that their report was quite badly flawed and re-did the study in 2008. Below you will find a link to the WEN's page regarding the report.

http://www.wen.org.uk/general_pages/New ... .10.08.htm

Cloth nappies can also hinder walking. I have actually witnessed children struggling to walk because the cloth nappy is so large. Yes i understand that they are getting smaller but i firmly believe they are a hinderance. I once heard a parent comment how cute her son looked running in a cloth nappy. What she was actually watching was her sons legs compensating for the large nappy between his legs making him run strangley.

Actually cloth nappies give support to hips. Children with certain hip problems are often put in double thickness cloth nappies to correct issues with their hip development. This is what thenappylady.co.uk has to say

Yes, children in cloth nappies may well walk slightly differently from their peers in disposables, and lie with their legs more splayed, but they are not bandy legged.
Some paediatricians argue that the extra support of cloth provides better conditions for proper hip development, as well as spinal cushioning while the child learns to walk

this sentiment is repeated all over the information sources I have read regarding cloth nappies.

In the summer these nappies are far too warm. I have actually changed children out of cloth nappies as they have been too hot. Some cloth nappies consist of 3 layers of material.

This is again a hugely misinformed statement. Firstly most cloth nappies have far more than 3 layers! However disposables have layers of chemicals and plastic (1 cup of crude oil per nappy actually) which is far hotter. If you would like scientific proof of this then please refer to the 2000 study done in Germany. I have taken this information from The British Medical Journal, a peer reviewed highly respected medical journal.

Scrotal temperature is increased in disposable plastic lined nappies
C-J Partsch, M Aukamp, W G Sippell
Division of Paediatric Endocrinology, Department of Paediatrics, Christian-Albrechts- University of Kiel, Schwanenweg 20, D-24105 Kiel, Germany

It is a long and detailed report so I have just replicated a small portion of it for you to get some idea of how incorrect your point is

The physiological temperature of the adult human testis has been reported as being between 31 and 35°C (table 2). To our knowledge, comparable data in healthy children are not available. One report on cryptorchid boys showed significantly higher testicular temperature on the cryptorchid than on the normally descended testis during operation.23 Similarly, significantly higher left testicular temperatures have been observed in patients with varicocele than in normal volunteers.24 An extensive review of the available literature (in part: table 2) showed that scrotal temperatures as high as those in infants wearing plastic lined nappies have not been observed before. In fact, the physiological cooling mechanism was blunted in all 48 boys wearing plastic lined, disposable nappies, and was completely abolished in 13 out of 48 (27%).

Even higher scrotal/testicular temperatures can be expected during the not infrequent feverish episodes in male infants and toddlers. In adults, short term testicular temperature elevations by sauna bath (elevation of rectal temperature by 0.93°C), or during acute febrile diseases were shown to suppress spermatogenesis.15 16 25 26 Thus, it seems to be possible that a prolonged and continuous elevation of testicular temperature by a mean of 1°C can affect the maturation of the infant testis. An increased testicular temperature and/or an impaired testiculoscrotal thermoregulation have deleterious effects on spermatogenesis.16 17 20 27 Moreover, mild testicular heating has been demonstrated to be effective as a means of reversible contraception in men.28 A lowering of the rectoscrotal temperature gradient in healthy men by 1°C to 2°C was accompanied by a suppression of spermatogenesis.20 27-29 From these and other studies, it can be concluded that an increase of testicular temperature by 1°C and/or a decrease of the rectoscrotal temperature difference by 1 to 2°C is significant for spermatogenesis in men. However, it must be admitted that the impact of a temperature increase of the observed magnitude on the developing testis of the male infant is still unknown. In addition to the effects of increased testicular temperature on spermatogenesis, the former may be one of the aetiological factors in testicular malignancy.30

Reference:

Archives of Disease in Childhood 2000;83:364-368; doi:10.1136/adc.83.4.364
Copyright © 2000 BMJ Publishing Group Ltd & Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health.
Arch Dis Child 2000;83:364-368 ( October )

Link if you would like to read the full report yourself (you do need to register):
http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/83/4/364

this will probably be my only post. Please keep in mind these points.

That's a shame, I have taken the time to respond to you and I would like to hear your reply, that is how it normally works on a forum. However in this instance it seems you may have only posted to flame a response. I do hope you read what I have written, you may just learn something

Haha, I didnt think this post was going to be pro-cloth when I read the title!

And I am sure that it was written to get some kind of reaction out of all of us, but I am sure that we can keep it civilized like we always do

For what its worth - which is probably not a lot to the original poster - but might be for those who are thinking of using cloth and happen to read this during their research, I used disposables with my DS and cloth with my DD.
- DS was walking by 11 months, DD by 12 months.
- DS was not interested in toilet training at all until he was 2.5 and was dry at night when he was 3.5, DD on the other hand has been dry during the day since 2 and dry during the night just 2 months later.

I know that all kids are different, but I have plenty of friends whose LO's are not in cloth who are not walking as quickly, or are not toilet trained as early, however I am not going to blame them using disposables for this delay.

Thank you for posting though, as hopefully the replies that are posted will be full of useful positive information about using cloth

I think Mr CM, Tory and Marijke have all said it all...!! Obviously I completely agree with everything they said. It's sad that this will be your only post, would have been interested to see what you thought of Mr CM, Tory and Marijke's reply's.

I find your post very interesting nursery nurse...

I too am a nursery nurse and have been for a long time (currently on maternity leave) and have two children of my own BOTH of whom have worn cloth nappies by MY choice

I have cared for children in cloth nappies throughout all the years i have worked in a nursery, there has always been at least one child in cloth and i find your opinion very narrow minded! Not to mention that its not always about what YOU would like but the wishes of the parents for who's children you care for... YOU care there to care for the children whatever their parents wishes or beliefes...i think it may benifit you to read the equal ops policy...

Cloth nappies take no longer than disposable nappy changes, they do not smell more than disposables (quite the oposite in fact) and they do not take 20 minutes to put back on...i actually find those points quite amusing...

Having worked as co-ordinator in a baby room and toddler room and dealt with ratio issues/getting out the door for walks etc...I can honistly tell you that cloth nappies has NO negative impact on it...

Im sure your boss would be interested to read your responce informing us that our children arnt the only ones that you care for and that we should remember that...interesting customer services Quite honistly as a parent i dont really give a hoot how many children you look after(providing you are within current ratios as set by ofstead)...my child and my wishes are of upmost importance to ME!

Also there are so many types of cloth nappies and some are easier than others i guess...personally when i sent my daughter to nursery i used pocket nappies which actually are just like a disposable nappy...I will do the same when my son goes too

Thanks for sharing your opinion

nursery nurse why did you join this club if you are obviously anti cloth?

i actualy find some of your views amusing.

Cloth nappies can also hinder walking. I have actually witnessed children struggling to walk because the cloth nappy is so large. Yes i understand that they are getting smaller but i firmly believe they are a hinderance. I once heard a parent comment how cute her son looked running in a cloth nappy. What she was actually watching was her sons legs compensating for the large nappy between his legs making him run strangley.

like someone said -the person refered to above needs to review what nappys they are using as there are plenty on the market not much different in thickness to a disposable.
what happened before disposables ? i think people used terrys didnt they? i was in terrys as a baby - didnt have bandy legs or look deformed & the only hinderance i had with walking was an older brother and living on a houseboat!
my dd is in cloth & has no probs walking/moving around - all kids develope at different rates as you should know.

In the summer these nappies are far too warm. I have actually changed children out of cloth nappies as they have been too hot. Some cloth nappies consist of 3 layers of material.

i have actualy found the reverse of this - her bum is nicely cool whan i change her. i recently used disposables on holiiday & her bum was always clammy & smelt pretty rank most of the time due to the chemicals in the nappy.

If you have got a child in cloth nappies the nappy change takes longer. It can easily take twice as long to change a cloth nappy. Imagine if you have lots of these children. We would never get out the door.

i dont understand this one, how does it take longer? fitted or pockets go on like a disposable and do up with velcro or poppers -ive found hardly any difference at all. the only thing that makes a difference is having a toddler/baby who wants to get up and go - regardless of what nappy you use.

if i have another child i would deffinatly use cloth again & 3 friends have changed to cloth since seeing how easy it is and all prefer it.

Agree with all the above reply's.

Think someone is doing a bit of trolling. (posting to get a negative response)

Just so that you know babys with hip problems are actully given a contraption to hold their legs apart and aid development

very very narrow minded, i choose to use cloth nappies because i believe its best for my baby. i don't preach to others about how bad disposables are. it is just my personal choice not to have chemicals on my baby's delicate skin.

i can echo what was said before me but i just have one further point

HOW DO YOU THINK BABIES WERE DIAPERED BEFORE DISPOSABLES WERE INVENTED? DID CHILD CARERS COMPLAIN THEN?