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controlled crying??

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samandsally
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby samandsally » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:30 am

Hi,
I also could not leave my baby to cry. They cry for a reason and i think i should be there to meet that need, be it milk or a cuddle or just to be close. They are wee for such a short time.
I have used some of the baby whisperer ideas with my second baby though and have found this such a gentle and loving way to help a baby to learn to self settle. He gets so excited now when going down for a nap,gives me a big smile and it takes him seconds to go off to sleep, he seems to feel so safe and happy in his cot which is great. Having said that i do listen to my own instincts and do not follow it by the book, I still bf when he needs it at night etc.
I also have met loads of people that have used CC but for me it seems cruel and aginst all my instincts as a mum.

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tanya
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby tanya » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:36 am

Velvetsteph wrote:
tanya2007 wrote:I have a firm belief that all it teaches the child is that if they cry, no-one is coming, so they don't bother any more.
There's an NSPCC advert which says 'XYZ doesn't cry anymore as he knows no-one is coming'.... says it all really...

I can't watch those adverts, they make me cry. Always have. That quote was enough to make the hairs on my body stand on end *shudder*

And I agree, Baby Whisperer is a lovely way to help your baby settle. It all feels so natural. When we used it, it wasn't about getting Bella into a strict timed routine, it was about helping her understand what was coming next and helping her become more settled. It also aids mother/baby communication.

Saying that, Bella still pretty much disctates her own routine. We are very baby focussed and baby led and that's what feels right for us.

But enough ranting LOL

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dawnsmummy
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby dawnsmummy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:41 am

every child, and parent, is different. just because you use CC doesnt mean you should be on an NSPCC advert and i dont think it makes you cruel or heartless or a bad parent...

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nappynutter
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby nappynutter » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Velvetsteph wrote:There's plenty of evidence about how damaging it is and while it may not appear to affect them now it can influence their demeanour and behaviour in later life and cause behavioural and attachment issues. Crying increases stress levels in the brain etc and I'm sure someone will be along to post links later ;)

tanya2007 wrote:I have a firm belief that all it teaches the child is that if they cry, no-one is coming, so they don't bother any more.
There's an NSPCC advert which says 'XYZ doesn't cry anymore as he knows no-one is coming'.... says it all really...


There are links in my previous post, but these quotes sum up my reasons for not doing CIO/CC.

Leaving a baby to cry evokes physiological responses that increase stress hormones. Crying infants experience an increase in heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure. These reactions are likely to result in overheating and, along with vomiting due to extreme distress, could pose a potential risk of SIDS in vulnerable infants. There may also be longer-term emotional effects. Babies need our help to learn how to regulate their emotions, meaning that when we respond to and soothe their cries, we help them understand that when they are upset, they can calm down. On the other hand, when infants are left alone to cry it out, they fail to develop the understanding that they can regulate their own emotions. There is also compelling evidence that increased levels of stress hormones may cause permanent changes in the stress responses of the infant’s developing brain. These changes then affect memory, attention, and emotion, and can trigger an elevated response to stress throughout life, including a predisposition to later anxiety and depressive disorders.


Stress levels in infancy may have implications for learning, too. While it seems fairly obvious that a calm baby will be available for learning, studies have shown that children with the lowest scores on mental and motor ability tests were those with the highest cortisol levels in their blood.


Controlled crying and other similar regimes may indeed work to produce a self-soothing, solitary sleeping infant. However, the trade-off could be an anxious, clingy or hyper-vigilant child or even worse, a child whose trust is broken.


It is the very principle that makes controlled crying ‘work’ that is of greatest concern: when controlled crying ‘succeeds’ in teaching a baby to fall asleep alone, it is due to a process that neurobiologist Bruce Perry calls the ‘defeat response’. Normally, when humans feel threatened, our bodies flood with stress hormones and we go into ‘fight’ or ‘flight’. However, babies can’t fight and they can’t flee, so they communicate their distress by crying. When infant cries are ignored, this trauma elicits a ‘freeze’ or ‘defeat’ response. Babies eventually abandon their crying as the nervous system shuts down the emotional pain and the striving to reach out.

One explanation for the success of ‘crying it out’ is that when an infant’s defeat response is triggered often enough, the child will become habituated to this. That is, each time the child is left to cry, he ‘switches’ more quickly to this response. This is why babies may cry for say, an hour the first night, twenty minutes the following night and fall asleep almost immediately on the third night (if you are ‘lucky’). They are ‘switching off’ (and sleeping) more quickly, not learning a legitimate skill.


Most children learn to self-soothe by the time they are 2 or 3 years old. Sleep training does not teach them this skill in a healthy way.
Last edited by nappynutter on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Velvetsteph
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby Velvetsteph » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:21 pm

dawnsmummy wrote:every child, and parent, is different. just because you use CC doesnt mean you should be on an NSPCC advert and i dont think it makes you cruel or heartless or a bad parent...

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Nobody said it made you a bad parent Stacey...

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Cyrillia
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby Cyrillia » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:22 pm

Velvetsteph sums it up entirely for me. :thumbsup:

I wrote this on another board when somebody posted about CC. I'll repeat it here to tell you our story as I actually did try CC at one point with DS and I can easily say it was one of the worse things I've ever done. I apologise to anyone in advance who has done it, I'm sure it's an approach that might suit some children, but I can only relate what happened to us.

I've never gotten myself involved in a debate about CC as I know we've all got our own ideas about these things. However, I just wanted to relate to you what happened to us...

This will probably be long and boring, but if you're interested here goes.

I can say we've been very lucky with DS at night, but we've always done the same thing - bath, milk, then bed. When he was very little we just used to pop him in his cot awake and off to sleep he'd go. We'd always go back if he wasn't happy (which was rare). However, over time - as he became more aware - he would 'grumble' when put down. Well, as the weeks went by the grumble turned into a whine, then a cry. I was confused by this point, thinking that crying was supposed to get less - not more?! But we simply persisted putting him down though as by this point I'd been totally convinced by various sources that he had to learn to go to sleep himself and he was just 'trying it on' as initially he had gone to sleep on his own.

I then started noticing a difference in the day. It was very gradual, but the LO I knew was changing into a thorough grump who hated to be cuddled and relied VERY heavily on his comforter (a teddy). I became more and more dismayed because if he cried - whether he was hurt or whatever had happened - I just couldn't do anything with him. He'd scream MORE in most cases when I tried to comfort him! I knew something was very wrong - it was as though he had an almost constant bee in his bonnet AND he seemed so unhappy!

Well, I didn't know what to do, but I knew I had to start somewhere, and somehow it just ‘felt right’ to start with bedtime. After all, lots of babies were cuddled to sleep, and mine was now crying for anything up to forty five minutes before finally falling asleep – he needed comforting then, so surely that was the place to begin?

That night I gave him his milk after his bath, and he seemed calm and settled so I put him in his cot – awake. I walked away, and it wasn’t long before the crying started (I’d just gotten outside the door). I stood there until I knew whether it was a ‘real’ cry, and went back in. I picked him up and tried to comfort him, but the crying wouldn’t stop no matter how softly I talked or sang. I truly felt helpless, and the doubts crept back in. However, I grabbed trusy ol' Spencer and thought, “We’ll do it together!”. The crying stopped immediately, so there I sat rocking and comforting until he fell asleep in my arms.

I kept up our new routine for a little while – putting him down, waiting for him to cry out for me, then returning for a 'three-way cuddle' – until I felt that I didn’t need to wait for the cry and just sat quietly with my son and the bear straight after the milk. After a while, though, I found that DS played more and more with the bear instead of dropping off quietly so one evening I decided that it was time to do without the bear, but left him within easy arms reach.

Fast forward to today and it was slow road. However, not allowing my son to cry himself to sleep every night was the turning point in our relationship AND his behaviour. 'Spencer' doesn't leave the cot at all now - DS doesn't need him! DS's source of comfort in ALL situations is ME - day and night. We quietly talk and cuddle at bedtime, and he is so affectionate in return - he's back to the little fella I had in the beginning.

I've been up and down since DS arrived, so we've been through thick and thin together with PND, etc... but despite all that (which was bad enough!) nothing competes with how he changed after/during the CIO/CC approach. I know the following statement is going to be inflammatory, but I now realise that allowing my son to cry himself to sleep at night was the most damaging parenting decision I've made to date. I doubt it will be the last, but it's not one I'll repeat in a hurry.

I know that people on here have had great success with this approach, and that leads me to believe that it just suits some babies - their temperment perhaps makes them able to take it. Some (like my DS) don't, and that FOR THOSE BABIES it just does no good at all. It's a decision that every parent must make by looking at their own child.


Sarah
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nappynutter
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby nappynutter » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:49 pm

Velvetsteph wrote:
dawnsmummy wrote:every child, and parent, is different. just because you use CC doesnt mean you should be on an NSPCC advert and i dont think it makes you cruel or heartless or a bad parent...

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Nobody said it made you a bad parent Stacey...


Nobody is saying you are a bad parent. As parents we all learn as we go along. Sometimes we change or refine the way we do things because we find a better or different way. Sometimes our ideas will help someone else. Nobody thinks badly of anyone who did what they thought was best for their child at that time. Being open minded, flexible and prepared to take on board new ideas as appropriate and also share our experiences with others is what parenting is all about. :)

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megansmummy
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby megansmummy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:46 pm

Have never done CC and wont ever do it...

Such a personal shoice, every parent does what they believe is best :wink:

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tanya
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Re: controlled crying??

Postby tanya » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:47 pm

dawnsmummy wrote:every child, and parent, is different. just because you use CC doesnt mean you should be on an NSPCC advert and i dont think it makes you cruel or heartless or a bad parent...

Oh Stacey, as I said in my post, I know there are families where this can work very well. It's just not for us. I am in NO WAY judging your parenting style. "Each to their own" is my motto. I didn't mean to upset you :hug: :hug: :hug:

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