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sleep advice

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lazylexis
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sleep advice

Postby lazylexis » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:09 pm

:idea: I'm totally exhausted and again had a bad night with Nathan. Not sure if its teeth or what but it's been going on for a few weeks now. At one stage he was sleeping around 5 hours straight form 9 until 2 and sometimes until 3 and then waking every 1 and a half to 2 hours and that is the best he has been for over 6 months. The past couple of weeks he has been sleeping 2-3 hours max and then waking every 1-2 hours.
His daytime naps are all over the place as dh says he screams if he tries to cuddle him to sleep and he usually ends up walking for ages with Nathan in the buggy but he often only sleeps for a short time.

Nathan has a bath every 2-3 nights and sometimes has a story or has a cuddle to wind down but he often seems to have loads of energy until about 7.30 or 8.00. I take him to bed ( we co sleep) about 8.00 or 8.30 as if I try it earlier he wants to play rather than sleep.
He usually goes to sleep by 8.45-9.00 if I :bf: him. He feeds lying down, than comes off and turns away from me on to his tummy and is asleep. When he wakes I try to settle without a feed which sometimes works, sometimes not. He often gets frustrated and cries for a bit but can settle within 10 mins or so, If this goes on for 20 mins I tend to feed him and usually he again comes off and turns over and goes to sleep.
Last night I fed him , he came off the breast as usual and turned over but started crying straight away so tried again but the same happenedx3. I asked dh to try getting him to sleep ( he likes leaving nights to me as he has N all day) and he complained about it, saying he can't get N to sleep during the day!
N was asleep within 5 mins with no crying at all, with just a cuddle from dh so dh said 'what's the problem?!' :x
He was awake again crying within 20 mins, I thought he might be uncomfortable so I took his ffn off ( which was done up a bit tight :oops: ). he lay on dh's chest with no nappy and fell asleep within seconds,before I could put a new one on and stayed asleep while I put a new nn on!
He then woke up about 3 hours later and wouldn't settle without a feed , I tried water but no luck. 3 hours later he woke but he settled without a feed and had another :bf: 2 hours later.
So a few qs
Ideally I wouldn't mind trying getting dh to settle him sometimes at night but dh sleeps in the spare room as he still smokes despite promising to give up numerous times over the past 5 yrs and when I was pregnant. he's not tried to do so for over a yr and lasts about a week when he does try. :x I know it's hard to give up but he doesn't seem to understand how important it is , partic since dh and I both have asthma so Nathan's risk of it is already pretty high!
Nathan won' t take any milk during the day so he tends to make up for it in the evening and overnight I think so I'm not sure if i stop feeding at night what the chances of him giving up altogether would be which I don't want?
Last night he took some water but still wanted a feed so I think some of it is thirst and some is comfort.
I don't want to go down the CC or CIO route and I'm loathe to leave him to cry for too long at night or dh moans.
I am totally exhausted and not sure what to do for the best!! agghhhhh

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northernruth
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Re: sleep advice

Postby northernruth » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:18 pm

I think you have two options. At the moment I think you are falling between two stools, half embracing the AP concept and half trying to get him to self settle. He has learned that if he makes enough fuss for long enough (twnety minutes!) he gets fed. So I think either:

1. carry on as you are, but feeding when required during the night. I'm sure one of the other co sleepers will be along and of course the co sleeping view is if the child needs comfort from the breast then they get it, and it results in a harmonious co sleeping arrangement

2. stop feeding him at night. This includes feeding him to sleep. I don't mean CIO or CC, but that he is put to bed with company but no BF. Elisabeth Pantley has a good approach to weaning them off feeding to sleep if this is a probelm (altho it sounds like it's not). I know I will get flamed for this, but he's feeding at night because he's not feeding (milk) during the day - if you cut out feeding at night he will make up for it in the day. You might need to enlist DH's help at first to settle him in the night, so maybe when you are off work at the weekend and can have him during the day?

As for the smoking, I'm sure you of all ppl know that it's not just the night, that the after effects of a cigarette stay with the smoker for a couple of hours after a smoke, so even if he's smoking outside he's still potentially affecting Nathan. I don't know whether DH could come back in with you if Nathan didn't sleep in the middle of the two of you? Or would he consider leaving a decent interval after his last fag before coming to bed?

Just edited to add: whatever you try you need to be consistent and stick with it for at least 5 days if not a week, but often you will see a change within 3 days. You can't try one thing one night and another the next.

Finally, a consistent bedtime routine is important. He will seem full of beans because he doesn't have wind down time - the quiet time with books, cuddles milk etc is part of what makes them ready for bed. We have a bath every night just because it's part of the routine and the signals for going to bed.

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lazylexis
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Re: sleep advice

Postby lazylexis » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:55 am

Thanks for the reply Ruth. I did think that part of the problem was Nathan not taking milk during the day but he won't take it in a bottle or cup when I'm not there and I am out the house from 8.30 until 6.30. When I am there at the weekends he still feeds just as much at night tho so I don't know how much of an effect less milk during the day has?

hmm interesting last night. Nathan had a long morning nap from 9.45 to 11.45 and no afternoon nap. He usually has a 40 min nap in the morning and an 1-1 3/4 hours in afternoon. I got home from work at 6.30 and N was having tea. He's not eating much atm apart fom banana and bread tho!
Took him upstairs for :bf: after tea and he fell asleep during it at 6.45 which never happens! woke at 7.30 and v upset. Got him ready for bed and :bf: in bed, he was asleep by 8.05. He then woke at 12.30, 2.30, 4, 5 and 6.30 and that is what our nights have been like for weeks now but at least he had a 4 hour chunk at the start, sadly I couldn't get to sleep until gone 10. :|

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fivefourfour
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Re: sleep advice

Postby fivefourfour » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:07 pm

Can't help too much as I had to stop bf when Merry was 5 weeks, as we didn't face this issue.

I would suggest giving him a bath every night. We do with Merry, as I know baths always make me sleepy, and it really acts as trigger to her that it's bed time. It's always: bottle, bath, book, bed!

We co-slept, but Merry is now in her own room. With the three of us in bed, after she was about 13 months, none of us good any sleep. As the problem isn't just him taking a while to settle, but also that he's wakeful at night, I wonder if maybe it is time to move him into his own bed/cotbed?

Another suggestion is really make sure his tummy's full. This will make him sleepier and then should limit his waking in the night.

Are teeth bothering him? Maybe a teething sachet (such as Ashton and Parsons) before bed?

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northernruth
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Re: sleep advice

Postby northernruth » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:09 pm

I was thinking that maybe you should move him into his own room if that is now an option. I suppose this will be difficult tho if you are used to having him with you, it will be a wrench, and I guess it would mean that DH would come back in with you, and you might be feeling ambivalent about that after how things have been :hug:

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jan3182001
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Re: sleep advice

Postby jan3182001 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:18 pm

"He then woke at 12.30, 2.30, 4, 5 and 6.30 "
When my lo's Bf's dropped to evening/morning only the night ones seemed to increase too - I tried not to do the middle of the night ones but if i was there it was hopeless. Though they would settle if i was not around easily.
They only stopped waking when I stopped feeding totally - even then I had to wear several layers of clothes and be very firm and not let little hands get close to suceeding.
I eventually stopped as feeding only 2x a day i would get sore and as the child was around 2 I wasn't prepared to suffer the pain any more.

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nappynutter
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Re: sleep advice

Postby nappynutter » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:05 am

He's reverse cycling. He can't have boob and cuddles from you during the day, so he catches up at night. It's perfectly normal. If you move him into his own room and drop night feeds now, he is likely to get very upset as you will be taking away the only contact he has with you. I would strongly recommend against this unless you want to give up breastfeeding altogether and TBH, I don't think it will help him sleep better anyway. He's still very young and needs you.

Instead, I would stay downstairs and cuddle and feed on the settee for longer and then take him upstairs later on when he is falling/has fallen asleep or you want to go to bed. Recent studies have shown that routines do not improve sleep in infants, being responsive to needs is a far better way to help your baby sleep well. It's completely normal for a one year old to need boob at night and also need help falling asleep, you just need to find a way that makes it easier on you.

Fin is a little bit older and he spends quite a lot of time with his Dad during the day. In the evening he has a cuddle and feed with me and then when he's sleepy DH takes him up to our bed for a cuddle (usually about 9ish). He's usually asleep by about 9:45/10:00 and DH comes back downstairs. We are usually in bed by midnight and he is still asleep then,. He does still have feeds during the night but I don't mind as neither of us really wake up properly, he just rolls over, has boob and then falls back asleep again.

P.S. I'd stick to baths every 2 or 3 days. If asthma/allergies run in your family, then daily bathing can increase the risk/make allergies worse.


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