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Advice from an expert on washing detergent

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Annette
Cloth Nappy Ninky Nonk
Cloth Nappy Ninky Nonk

Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby Annette » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:35 am

This is a quote from a guy called Ken who works in the washing machine industry about what he recommends you use to wash. His advice on towels goes for nappies too and I think it makes alot of sense.

Use powder every time as you get all the technology in it and you control the dose better than with tablets.

Washing with liquid only will cause a build up of foul smelling scum inside the machine over time which can also rot through the aluminum drum spiders, not nice and not cheap to fix, as well as other issues.

You really need two powders or one powder and one liquid which is better as you can then use the liquid to pre-treat if required. The powder IMO should be bio with bleach which you would be using for whites and light colours as you want them bleached. The liquid for colours as it contains no bleach at all, the difference between the non-colour stuff and coloured is some optical brighteners, not a lot really. But liquid is good for heavy stain removal before you wash, just rub some in, leave it for a few minutes and wash as usual.

The whole non-bio thing is just a load of huey, absolute rubbish that it affects skin etc. IMO with absolutely not a scrap of proof to support the notion that it does.

On softener, I really don't like the stuff at all.

If you must use it then personally I'd go for using Bold 2-in1 as that's clay based, so you can use it to wash towelling, it is the ONLY softener that can be used for towels. All other softener is grease based and will repel water, so your towels won't dry properly. If you choose to use other softeners then don't use it on towels or you'll wreck them faster.

If you have to use normal grease based softener then stick with Lenor or Comfort, but don't overdose it or you'll end up with a mouldy soap drawer and quite often big lumps of congealed goo.

Bold is better for any towelling due to that, including nappies. The only thing some people have an issue with on Bold is that it does have a quite heavy perfume, other than that it's actually pretty good. It doesn't have all the technology that's in Ariel, but it isn't far off it, you lose photo-bleach and a couple of other little tricks and that's about it.

If the water is really hard remember to use what the pack says otherwise a lot of the components designed to attack staining will attack the calcium in the water instead, you can't skimp on it if you're in a hard water area.

What they all do is that they have the premium brand, like Persil and Ariel, into which all the technology goes and hence the higher price and then, later, that formula becomes the next Daz, Surf or whatever with a little modification to fit the pricing. In the end, you do get what you pay for.



And a bit on sensitive skin and detergents

It's almost certainly not the detergent that's the problem.

On tests carried out by the manufacturers, several I hasten to add and not just one, they have found that detergent causes a reaction in something like 0.000003% or people. In other words, you've almost got more chance of winning the lottery two weeks on the trot than having a reaction to a detergent and certainly more chance of winning that than this.

The problem is that, due to our ultra-efficient health system, that doctors will tell you to toodle off and try this and that before actually doing what needs done, a skin test. It is only by doing a skin test for allergies that you will find out what the actual problem is. Of course, this costs money and it is therefore cheaper to tell people a load of bunkem and send them packing in full knowledge that there is most likely little or no connection to the suggestions.

However, with kids, the situation gets worse as (I'm sure you know) they go through little phases as they grow so, what affects them this week, may not the next. What I'm saying is that people can often find themselves trying to find a solution while the goalposts are shifting.

I have one employee and several relatives that suffer from severe eczema as well as my own two kids and, I do mean severe in one particular case and we tested this, the detergent made not a jot of difference to them as it's mostly all washed out. In fact, the amount of detergent left on clothing where it is used correctly is minuscule. The person with severe eczema has been using Ariel bio and colour for two years now with no ill effects whatsoever, but there are different eczemas as well remember.

What appears to have a much greater effect is soap and cosmetic products as, in that case, these are going directly onto the skin.

However, certain fabrics can also affect eczema, as can diet, weather and a host of other things. It is entirely bad advice to simply look at laundry detergent as a scapegoat for skin conditions and this is borne out by advice from various renowned medical sources as well as the detergent manufacturers.

My honest advice would be try to see a proper dermatologist and get a proper skin test done so that you know what the problem is and can then act accordingly, otherwise it's just guesswork.

As for the laundry, I know there's this whole thing about water saving etc. but it isn't really much good if people get ill because of it. That's the big change in the past decade, the reduction of water, so clothes aren't washed out as well, especially when people cut corners and use quick washes as they take longer to wash now. The reason being that, to use less water and therefore less energy to heat it, you have to agitate the laundry more to get the results. People won't wait, use a quick wash, use too much detergent for that cycle and, bingo, we have residues.

Always use the correct cycle for the soiling level. If it is clothing that is worn next to the skin it is medium soiled. If it's been used for any sort of activities like sports, it's heavy soiled, neither can use a quick cycle or you will have problems.

If you do have skin issues or you're concerned about it, use any extra rinses that you can. If it's a real concern, when you get a new machine, seek one that has good rinsing abilities.

When you do buy a machine remember that they are not all the same by a long, long way and that the cheaper ones will invariably perform worse. The poorer the performance then obviously the greater chance that the job isn't done right and again, you get problems.

However the overriding advice is, see a dermatologist and get real answers and if they give you static about laundry detergents, by all means refer then to this or the article I posted a while back on the subject as, none of the medical publications that I have found even mention laundry detergents or conditioners as being responsible for any skin irritations whatsoever.

Sorry for the long-winded explanation but it's probably worth it for other mums that may also be concerned about this.

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Shaunie
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby Shaunie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:10 am

I use ecover liquid but could change to powder. I use it for environmental reasons as well as for skin - my skin reacts to different wash powders (Daz is a definite no no). Would you recommend using something else to wash my nappies or carry on with the ecover???

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Annette
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby Annette » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am

Having read quite a bit from this guy, the whole debate on "eco" washing detergents is a really tricky one. He says that you need to look at the different areas and not just whether the product contains more eco ingredients. For example:

- the ability of the detergent to get things clean. if you are having to wash at higher temperatures or re-wash things then this has an impact on the environment
- this might also impact on the life of the clothing, you may throw it out sooner if it is stained
- the effect on the washing machine - many washing machines these days last less than 8 years and often this is due to things like smells or erosion of parts from build ups of gloopy residues

This guy actually champions Ariel bio powder (and no he doesn't work for Proctor and Gamble :giggle: ) because it will get clothes clean at low temperatures, it eliminates the need for re-washing as most stains come out first wash, you can measure out exactly what you need and it doesn't create the gloopy build ups like liquid can.

He says you get what you pay for and that cheaper products will be less effective at cleaning as they don't contain the same ingredients. The really eco products contain no bleaching ingredients so it doesn't get things as clean and there is nothing to keep the dirt suspended in the water - so what you get is the dirt being re-deposited into the clothing, leading to that *grey* look.

I think it is about finding what works for you and fits with your price tag. If you have no problems with Ecover then stick with it but if you are having problems with staining or smells then consider changing.

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Shaunie
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby Shaunie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:40 am

That's interesting. I think it gets out most stains other than orange & tomato juice & then I give thise to my Mum to wash :giggle: & I don't have to re-wash so no issues there. Any greying I think may due to not seperating colours etc? I also usually only wash at 30 or 40 & occasionally do the nappies at 60.

Think I may do a maintenance wash (using Mum's wash powder & she has crystals) then switch to ecover powder at least.

Thanks for the info :)

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Kirstyh
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby Kirstyh » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:04 am

I used ecover for a while but found it smelt terrible, I constantly thought the dog had pooped when they were drying x

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Shaunie
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby Shaunie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:44 am

Oh Kirsty :hohoho: :hohoho: :hohoho:

Am still laughing about your comment! I only really notice that my clothes don't smell as nice as other wash detergents & I do find myself sniffing my Mum's freshly washed laundry :oops: :oops: :oops:

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purplehearts
Clothie
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby purplehearts » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:44 am

Heya
I just wanted to say that after reading this, and what velvetsteph had to say about bio/non bio, i decided to switch to bio and I love the stuff!
I'd always instinctively used non-bio because of a vague idea that bio caused skin problems.
Anyway, I had a lot of problems with non-bio washing powders when I started using cloth nappies, was constantly getting smelly nappies and finding stains difficult to get out. But since changing to bio, not only have none of my family had any problems with skin irritation, but my nappies are always fresh smelling and so clean - I rarely get staining, and if I do it nearly always comes out within a couple of washes. Also I had a load of nappies and inserts that I'd bought preloved with staining that me and the previous owners had been unable to get out - but after a few normal washes with bio the staining is either gone or significantly reduced.
I found out that in most other countries, there isn't even a distinction made between bio and non bio washing powders.
The issues with skin irritation do seem to have been greatly exaggerated - I'm certainly not saying that there aren't people who react badly to bio washing powders but it seems that it's a much rarer problem than is widely believed. Also, there really shouldn't be traces of the washing powder left on the nappies if they are sufficiently rinsed, and the correct amount of detergent is used.
Bio does just clean so much better and I think for nappies - which are reguarly getting heavily soiled - that's really important as any traces of ammonia etc left on the nappies could end up causing problems - this is much more likely to be a problem for your child than sensitivity to bio.
So yep, just wanted to say that I'm a total convert and if anyone is struggling with staining/nappy rash/smells it's def worth giving it a try!

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smilinglou
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby smilinglou » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:24 pm

Really interesting info thanks for posting it! There's always something new I find out from this site, the non bio and allergy bit about the rinse cycle is interesting, it gets everyone worrying when really it isn't the problem :roll: people always seem to worry about the wrong things don't they, I've learnt that a lot since using the nappies.
We will be trying ariel bio powder then, got to get rid of this horrible fairy now :-?

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northernruth
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Re: Advice from an expert on washing detergent

Postby northernruth » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:55 pm

Now I am stressed, we use persil small and mighty which I love because it takes up no room at all and it easy to use. Plus I always use the Cotton Quick cycle on my machine which takes an hour and a half as it is, who has time to wait around for a two hour washing cycle? And how much bloomin money does it cost in leccy?

I am really wound up about the new machines all being cold feed too, we have a combi boiler which can heat water up for a wash a damn sight quicker than the element in my machine :roll:

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